The Chiclette goes in for her 2 month check-up on Thursday, the one on which they bombard this little developing immune system with all kinds of nasties--all for her good, of course. Now, I have mentioned before that I exercise caution with the recommendations of doctors. I have a skepticism about--well, everything, but about medicine in particular. I am not against all vaccines, however. I am merely cautious. The vaccines I received as a child are familiar territory, though they are questioned by many, and even linked to onset of autism in some children. Measels, Mumps, Rubella, Diptheria, Pertussus, and of course, Polio, are vaccines I tend to consider "safe," though I know many would question this. At any rate, I know that the vaccines have been around for a long, long time, and have been studied, and judged to be as safe as 50+ years of research can make them. My son, to be 11 on Friday, received all of the recommended vaccines. Until the chicken pox vaccine. I had heard the cautions about vaccines even then, but thought that the benefit was worth the slight risk. Until the chicken pox vaccine.
You see, in my mind, vaccines were reserved for childhood illnesses that killed children--polio, whooping cough--and posed a genuine public health risk. But chicken pox was only a mild nuisance for most children, keeping them out of school for a week or two, which wasn't really an issue, I guess, unless there was no one available to care for them at home. So my son did not receive the chicken pox vaccine. He got two very mild cases of chicken pox from exposure to children at school who had been vaccinated recently and were "shedding" the virus. That strengthened my opinion that the vaccine was not really advisable.
When I was in the hospital after having my Doodle, I read in the papers about the vaccine against Human Papillomavirus and was instantly against the idea of vaccinating pre-teen girls for an STD. It seemed hasty, unnecessary, inadvisable. Not to mention discriminatory--to subject the girls to a vaccine, the safety of which is not entirely known, when presumably they were getting the virus from boys. Besides the fact that this was hardly an air-borne illness. Let's face it, STDs are highly preventable. So my attitude towards vaccinating my daughters with Gardasil? Over my dead body, thanks.
I relaxed my vigilance some when it came time to vaccinate my Doodle. I don't know why, but I shrugged and did a "What the heck" when it came to the chicken pox, possibly because it was easiest at the time, or perhaps because my son had felt the adverse affects of not being vaccinated in a culture where vaccination was the norm--and was infected as a consequence of this being the norm. So I figured I would skip a step or two and make it easier when she had to go to school (eventually). Of course, I did not realize that Texas allows parents to opt out of any vaccine. Evidently all one has to do is file the paperwork. So Doodle has had all of the "mandatory" vaccines, but has not had the ones that are only required if she happens to attend daycare. Since her last round, I have read more about adverse affects of Gardasil (HPV) and the vaccination for chicken pox, and it makes me wonder about all of this all over again. Not to mention that link Jen posted about the use of aborted fetal tissue to make vaccines. Great. So here I am, wondering what to do. . . again.
Because this is no easy matter. Any time we refuse medical treatment or tests, we are going against the grain. It feels like gambling, and health is nothing to gamble with. I have less of a problem when it's just me--but when it's my children and I take a risk, it feels, well, wrong. Culturally we are told that doctors are superior to just about everyone, and should not really be questioned. This changes from place to place. I have to say that people in New Orleans that I knew seemed to question medical practitioners more--even before something went wrong--than they do in this corner of Texas. I'm sure there's another corner of Texas I could name where the questioning is more intense still--at least in some circles. But that's decidedly countercultural. And so if I follow my instincts and refuse one or more of the vaccines, I feel like a bad parent. For what? For doing what I feel is right, and for gambling on the chance that my child will not contract whatever they are vaccinating against. The last time I faced a decision like this, I was deciding whether to treat my child for an enzyme deficiency that I knew she didn't have while they retested her after botching the first screening so that she and 3 other babies came out positive. She was about 3 weeks old. I won that bet, but it was agonizing.
This week, she faces several vaccines, and I am not particularly comfortable with all of the vaccines, the fact that they are given simultaneously, the fact that they will be administered even if the baby has a cold, or the fact that parental consent is generally assumed, and that these vaccines are deemed "mandatory" for my children by state boards. At two months they receive: Prevnar, DTaP, HIB, Polio, and Chicken Pox. Possibly Rotavirus also. She has not had any vaccines at this point. I refused the one in the hospital--Hep B--because, well, I don't see it as necessary, as it is transmitted sexually or through a transfusion. I can't say I know much about Prevnar or HIB. I believe both of my earlier ones had them. I feel like a cop out admitting that I haven't done the research. DTaP is familiar territory, as is the Polio. Chicken pox--well, you know how I feel about that one. And I don't feel comfortable with the Rotavirus vaccine. It sounds like a daycare vaccine to me. You know, so the workers don't get sued for not washing their hands. I just can't see that it's more crucial now than it was 2 years ago. The main goal seems to be to prevent trips to the hospital and the doctor's office. So it's an insurance company vaccine, too--it saves them money.
And you know what socialized medicine means to me? More of this shoved down our throats, with less recourse if side-effects occur, and less choice in the matter!
22 comments:
More and more mothers are coming to the same conclusions you are - we have totally overvaccinated our children.
I no longer vaccinate at all, as the mother of two vaccine injured children and one that has never been vaxxed. He is 21 months and the smartest and healthiest of all three of my children.
He has never even had one ear infection.
Vaccines are hype that create 400 billion a YEAR for pharma companies.
They kill babies all the time and then the medical establishment lists their death as SIDS, or shaken baby, or others.
I refused the one in the hospital--Hep B--because, well, I don't see it as necessary.
And did the hospital staff react like you were refusing to give your child food, or do they just save that for me?
We have a doctor's appointment next week. I'm also stressed about this issue. I would die if they ever got anything that there are vaccines for (as happened with an acquaintance whose baby got whooping cough from a friend)...but I also have major reservations about vaccines, especially all at once, and would die if they suffered any adverse effects from them.
UGH. Keep us posted with any further thoughts.
I'm so torn up about this one. I'm wary of vaccines and agree that we're probably over-vaccinating our children. But I have a very hard time standing up to authority figures, especially doctors.
Heck, I have a hard time even asking the questions I walked in determined to ask much less questioning their judgment. Then, of course, I beat myself up over my wimpyness in the privacy of my own home and do it all over again the next time.
Whenever I read a blog post like this one from a mom who refused a vaccine, I'm inspired and think I should do the same. But the reality is I don't have a strong conviction either way. I envy those moms who do.
I haven't done enough research to feel confident in saying no to vaccines and so I think Bella has received all of them on the required list. And yet I've spent the past year and a half wondering if I shouldn't have said no. I'm still not sure what we're going to do with the next one. Will I make up my mind as to which vaccines I think are necessary and which are unnecessary and grow a spine and take a stand or will I continue to follow the path of least resistance? Like Jen said, I think I'm probably in for a big heaping helping of mommy guilt either way.
http://www.barrelhorseworld.com/forum/forums/thread-view.asp?tid=160713&posts=25&mid=2613608&highlight=&highlightmode=1&action=search#M2613608
Do your homework.
And ask yourself this: if your baby is healthy - why even go to the doctor only to be railroaded into something you don't want or don't need? Do you know that the leading cause of death in America (more than 750,000 deaths a YEAR) are directly atributed to erros in hospitals, misdiagnosis, drugs prescribed by doctors, drug interactions of the drugs prescribed by doctors.
And our infant mortality rate is one of the worst in the WORLD.
And apparently I can't spell !!
Clearly, we all have done our homework, which is why we're concerned. However, we also know that much good has come from vaccines. We are only a generation or two removed from the polio epidemics. I for one had a substitute teacher in elementary school who had suffered through polio and had the pronounced limp and special shoes to show for it. My husband had a teacher in grammar school who was also a polio survivor. The only reason we can now be secure in refusing certain of these vaccines is because successful vaccination programs eliminated virtually all risk. And yet the risks are still there, as Jen's friend's experience shows. We're all intelligent people here, or we wouldn't be questioning at all!! But I'm not quite ready to throw off the yoke of modern medicine, thanks.
In the hospital, they did not make much of my refusal. I just never signed the paper they left hanging around my room, and then told them (ha ha) that I needed to consult my pediatrician. I kind of played the game. In all fairness, I DID consult the pediatrician, who was fine with my refusal, but likely thinks the baby will get the shot Thursday.
It *is* difficult to stand up and say no, particularly when we were all vaccinated. But it's moved from life-saving necessity to more of a social and biological experiment.
Melanie, if it makes you feel even better, whenever I refuse something on conviction, I agonize about it afterwards. Like when I refused to have Doodle subjected to invasive tests for anatomical abnormalities because she had a urinary tract infection before the age of 1 year. I figured if the infection was recurring, I would have the tests done. Then I took her in twice suspecting UTIs that were non-existent. As it never recurred,I know I made the right decision. But no fewer than 3 physicians thought I was crazy. One harassed me (or had her nurse do it) and then charged spitefully for a no-show on an appointment we canceled the day of. My current pediatrician supports that decision, but seems to regard vaccinations as so wonderful, who would want to refuse? *sigh*
There is a wonderful side, but on the other hand, you're injecting a very small person with a live, weakened, or dead (sort-of) virus, and then hoping it prevents the same disease!! Sounds crazy, no? And that's not even touching the other ingredients of the serum. There's a lot to think about here. I think I will refuse the newer ones and stick with the older. Like I said, I'm suspicious of Hep B, Rotavirus, and Chicken Pox. Especially when I've read that breastfed babies rarely get Rotavirus. But I don't relish the prospect. Going against the establishment makes *me* the freak, but *they're* the ones injecting germs into my babies. Go figure!! :P
And our infant mortality rate is one of the worst in the WORLD.
Perhaps the industrialized world. And might this also be because more babies in the U.S. who have fatal birth defects are actually carried to term? No doubt that medical intervention causes deaths. But it also saves lives. When you consider how many deaths occur in hospitals, for example, you have to take into account that perfectly healthy people don't generally go waltzing into hospitals for treatment--women in labor notwithstanding, and that's a whole big, complicated and controversial subject that we can save for another thread!!
Thanks, l-c!
I think part of what makes it even harder is I really like our pediatrician too. There's that little fear of him looking at me like a weirdo. Especially when I've gone along with the vaccines so far. I know it's really dumb, but I hate to appear inconsistent. I do tend to agree with you about sticking with the older vaccines and being much more wary of the newer ones.
I think I'd do better at dealing with the whole thing too if they tended to approach the vaccines in a different fashion. For me the ideal would be that they'd tell me in advance what injections are typically given at the next appt and I'd have time to do the research and think about it. Instead what happens is they rapid fire tell me what they are about to do with no real time to collect my wits and think about which of the three syringes in the nurse's hand are ones I feel comfortable with. They do make a point of asking me; but I'm very bad at making snap judgments and responding confidently when I've not prepared and rehearsed a mental "script" of exactly what I need to say. It's part of the burden of being a painfully shy introvert.
I said do your homework because she clearly stated she had not done her homework one way or the other.
The Business of Being Born by Ricki Lake talks about our nation having the second worst mortality rate in the world, does it really matter if it's industrialized or not?
I was vaccinated as a kid as well, however, I had maybe three shots to our kids having more than 30 shots before they are six and you can triple that number at least for the actual amount of vaccines - e.g. MMR is three vaccines in one shot.
Also, polio has been argued to be a result of pesticide poisoning and DDT exposure. No one will pursue that line of thinking though, because it doesn't sell anything.
What is worse - lifetime arthritis (which my daughter has) or a limp from polio? Sound pretty close to being the same situation - only arthritis can come back and attack again and again. It can move into your eyes and make you blind and it can attack your own organs. Polio is starting to sound better than arthritis!
TO each their own, I'm clearly against vaccines!
I see your position, and it is one I'm familiar with. I just find that it's necessary to strike a balance between fear of medicine and an acknowledgment of its usefulness. But I do believe in limited medical intervention.
And, rhetorically speaking, "Do your homework" is a bit inflammatory.
We had the oldest vaccinated through 4 years. The middle had her newborn and three month shots. The last one only had the newborn (I wanted to say no but it seemed like it just happened!).
I've been agonizing a bit over getting the baby his mmr and pertussis. I haven't done all the research yet though. He's almost 2. If I get it now, how long will it last?
This is a good discussion!
Literacy -- point taken!
Entropy -- the MMR is the one that got both of my daughters.
Read:
What your doctor won't tell you about childhood vaccinations
Go to the link I posted above and read through the info on there with links, such as NVIC.org and investigating vaccine ingredients.
Good luck -- don't be afraid to say no - you are the mother. I truly believe that as women we underestimate our intelligence and importance in our children's lives.
YOU are the mother. YOU know what is best. Don't forget that. You can get slammed by 100 doctors, but if you have a stand -take it and do it without fear.
I too questioned myself at first, now I am strong in my conviction that vaccines have been nothing more than 50+ years of marketing.
Of course, I also believe that the food you eat, the household you live in, breastfeeding, all matter. It's not an isolated issue.
Best!
"a bit inflammatory" and, frankly, not helpful.
western woman,
I know you mean well and are trying to be a cheerleader; but from my end it feels like a personal attack. Like I said, this is an emotionally fraught issue for me and for most mothers. I have read plenty of articles on the subject of immunizations (though I'll also look at the ones you link to) and seen plenty of combox debate. It doesn't really help, though. I'm not ignorant, just indecisive and struggling.
I distrust all the "experts", both the mainstream medical establishment and also those who question that authority and write persuasive-sounding articles on why they refuse immunizations. Why should one be any more trustworthy than the other?
I don't think it's a black and white issue. And pregnancy hormones don't make it easy to be clear-headed, either. ;)
Of course, I also believe that the food you eat, the household you live in, breastfeeding, all matter. It's not an isolated issue.
Absolutely!
I truly believe that as women we underestimate our intelligence and importance in our children's lives.
Also true!!
And we are told in various ways that we are inferior to whatever authority--schools & teachers, doctors...
Anyway, thanks for the resources!
I would like to know to what you attribute your daughters' reactions--the formula, the viruses themselves, some other ingredient? And was the arthritis a listed side effect?
Again - the poster above my comment stated she had NOT done her homework and was very open about it, therefore I said - do your homework.
IT's not meant as a personal attack and anyone that took it that way needs to read the comments as they are posted.
For me the issue has become black and white.
My daughters case:
She was vaxxed totally until her one year old shots, and she was sick, I put them off two months. She got them and went from walking and running to crawling and then limping. She was being attacked from the inside out.
It was directly related to her vaccines. Yes, it is listed on the MMR insert. You have to google "Merk and Insert" and then go to the listed reactions and arthritis is right there.
Had a doctor given me a real interview, he'd have known that arthritis and autoimmune issues already run in my family, but he didn't.
She endured four years of medicines most adults don't want to take, shots of steroids to her knee. Today she is not as able to participate in sports and has one leg longer than the other.
She is in remission because of the homework I've done and the changes I've made in her diet, but it was the vaccine that triggered her body to attack itself.
My first daughter ended up in the ER and for two days had two spinal taps and I was told she might not make it from a "menegitis like "condition - she had just gotten her vaccines for menigitis (which I can't spell for squat) and I never put two and two together til later.
Another thing, you cannot sue the injury compensation program if you don't do so within three years of teh ONSET of symptoms - not ONE doctor, even the ones that did agree that it was due to vaccines and the specialist that said to never give her any more vaccines - told me about the injury compensation program.
She also had austistic like symptoms that passed and integration sensory disorder that she's also grown out of.
Third child vaxx free and very healthy.
I distrust all the "experts", both the mainstream medical establishment and also those who question that authority and write persuasive-sounding articles on why they refuse immunizations. Why should one be any more trustworthy than the other?
Usually it's appeal to authority vs. appeal to nature. The medical establishment relying on the fact that they are the establishment, but also relying on tests from the scientific community, and it's difficult to argue with such "proofs." The appeal to nature--that not vaccinating is "more natural," has an instinctive emotional appeal. It also proves effective to those who are countercultural in other ways or naturally skeptical. But as far as evidence goes, though it could be argued that the medical community has more scientific support, they also have more solid evidence. There is always the possibility of suppression of contradictory evidence, but that's always touchy to claim or prove. The problem is, both sides are persuasive, and both sides disregard the majority of the other side's arguments without really giving them adequate consideration. Cutting through the rhetoric is tough, too.
Had a doctor given me a real interview, he'd have known that arthritis and autoimmune issues already run in my family, but he didn't.
Okay, this helps a bit. I do wonder how many doctors would have given pause at this revelation, or just continued on? Many I have met recently have a rather experimental mentality. I think a lot has to do with reasons doctors pursue medicine and the nature of the scientific background.
Here's how I decide:
FOLLOW THE MONEY
If I go to a site that tells me vaccines are the devil and they are selling me three ways from Sunday - I leave.
And I probably don't have to tell any of you that vaccines alone pull in 400 billion a year for the pharma industry - a YEAR.
Is there a happy medium?
Not for me any longer, but then I've also read THE VIRUS AND THE VACCINE and more than dozen books on the history of vaccines - both for and against vaccines.
My mother also died of ALS - a nasty, nasty disease that has been loosely linked to the original polio vaccine.
Your chances of Alzhiemer's grows considerably with more than five flu shots throughout your life.
Ask yourself this - what do I gain by warning other mothers?
Nothing other than the peace of knowing that someone out there, at some point may save their own child's life.
Google Idaho and mother and vaccine - recently a mother was awarded 43 MILLION due to vaccine injury. Recently, another mother in Idaho woke up to her baby with crusted blood coming out of his nose and mouth and he's just gotten his vaccines the day before. They had the nerve to call it SIDS. (With blood?)
It's criminal - and if I can prompt just one mother to do her research and make a choice that feels right to her and her family, then I'm good.
AND (because I can hardly shut up once I get started):
Literacy: "Had a doctor given me a real interview, he'd have known that arthritis and autoimmune issues already run in my family, but he didn't.
Okay, this helps a bit. I do wonder how many doctors would have given pause at this revelation, or just continued on? Many I have met recently have a rather experimental mentality. I think a lot has to do with reasons doctors pursue medicine and the nature of the scientific background."
So think, how many times do people go to health departments for the shots (I have, no interview), how many get shots at schools from traveling nurses (very popular in rural areas), and now -- get this -- you can get your shots at WALGREENS!
Very safe and effective. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I probably don't have to say that I'm against flu shots--for me, my husband, my children, my friends, you name it. Definitely seems like a money-making scheme, as you suggest. But I wonder sometimes if I'd feel differently in a place where flu is a problem...
Now, at some point it is the responsibility of the parent/patient to make sure the medical personnel know all of the relevant information in non-doctor's office settings. My child would NOT be getting vaccinated at school, thank you. That IS how my mother was vaccinated in the 50s-60s.
We have all of these new information sharing programs in place now to allow anyone and everyone to access all information about every patient, but this is all a way of taking the responsibility off of the patient and putting in onto the medical community (here, broadly). Now, this may or may not prevent law suits, which is the real purpose, but it doesn't solve the problem that people need to be aware of their own medical care and treatment and need to protect themselves. In a way, that is what Western Woman Editor is recommending, but in a way, not so much. The patient does need to be forthcoming about medical history, family medical history, other drugs taken, and the like. Not everything is the responsibility of the doctor, especially if (as I do), you shift insurance companies and doctor's offices and records are incomplete. Or if (as WW mentions) you go to public health clinics where they do not HAVE records on your family. MEdicine shouldn't be "don't ask, don't tell" on either side!
if I can prompt just one mother to do her research and make a choice that feels right to her and her family, then I'm good.
This is a noble cause, but so often it feels like prompting the mother to make the choice that you (or whoever) would choose. If selective vaccination feels right, would you be satisfied with that, or is it "all or nothing" in your mind? That is probably where the feeling of attack comes from. But your contributions are appreciated, and make for a lively discussion that has led to areas I didn't anticipate!
That's the interesting part, I've told EVERY doctor since my mother died about her condition!
I really do not know who chooses to read my words and read further.
And I could never possibly follow up on it, so if someone chooses to delay vaccines, or even just gets a few, that is their choice.
All I do is put out info and think that other mothers, like me, will read it and may think twice. I never, never knew that you could get exemptions for vaccines, or that you could even be harmed from a vaccine.
I shudder at the memory of the "vaccine gun" and my military service. What is wandering around in my own body that I won't know about?
Would I be happy with selective vaxxing?
It's not up to me. I would be happy if the govt. made it "opt-in" instead of "opt-out" but until then all I can do is share info!
What a parent chooses to do after that is truly their choice!
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