Setara Qassim said a flight attendant confronted her during the trip from Tucson, Arizona, to Burbank, California, and asked whether she had a sweater to go over her green halter-style dress.
Qassim, 21, told KNBC-TV in Los Angeles she was forced to wrap a blanket around herself for the rest of the flight. She complained that if Southwest wants passengers to dress a certain way, it should publish a dress code.
Last week, 23-year-old Kayla Ebbert said a Southwest employee pulled her aside as she was preparing to board a plane departing San Diego for Tucson in July and told her she was dressed too provocatively to fly.
Ebbert, who took her case to NBC's "Today Show," said she was allowed on the plane after adjusting her sweater and short skirt. She said she was humiliated and felt the stares of other passengers who had overheard the verbal dressing-down.
Now, do you think these women were wearing anything that you haven't seen in Church? Okay, unfair question! ;)What strikes me first is the rationale behind the censure. One was "dressed too provocatively." There clearly isn't an objective standard for this. I would like to know if the airline employees imposing these guidelines were male or female, fundamentalist, or personally turned on by the passengers' attire. (This reminds me of discussions I've seen on other blogs about whether a sexily dressed woman is responsible for others' "occasions of sin"!) But this is the passage that seemed relevant to breastfeeding in the air:
American Airlines claims the right to refuse to carry passengers for a variety of reasons, including being drunk, barefoot, having an offensive odor or being "clothed in a manner that would cause discomfort or offense to other passengers."
That's pretty broad. The example given is offensive graphics on a t-shirt, but it's not tough to see how breastfeeding falls under this jurisdiction--even if the mother is discreetly covered. (But then, some passengers (and flight attendants) find the presence of children offensive enough anyway. . .) Of course, breastfeeding is an act, not a manner of dress, but certainly if the breast were all or partially exposed, one could anticipate this regulation being invoked. I have breastfed without incident on an airplane, but it was years ago (a bit over 10 years ago, to be precise). It was probably Southwest. But then, I don't like sitting by other people anyway, so there was likely no one there but my husband, and he wouldn't have complained!
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And, of course, what is interesting is that breastfeeding is choice for helping infants and babies deal with air pressure discomfort. So, you can either let the babies cry and distrub other passengers or you can breastfeed and disturb other passengers. Is that a Catch 22? I think I would prefer a mother to breastfeed as would any rational human being.
To be fair, apparently when Ebbert went on the Today Show, they had to fuzz out her nether regions when she sat down because apparently the skirt (the same one she wore on the plane) was short enough to flash the entire audience. I'd probably complain to a flight attendant if I was on a flight with children and one of them pointed out to me that 'I can see that lady's pantys!' (or worse "that lady isn't wearing panties!").
The nursing thing, when it happens and wherever it happens, seems always to boil down to one employee/manager/fellow customer being offended and insisting something be done. While we need legal protections for breastfeeding in public, what this shows is that there's still a lot of basic education to be done!
Hah!! That's good. Didn't she know that only Sharon Stone can get away with that? (I think there have been a few more recent celebrity examples.) Or perhaps by creating a scandal, she expected to reach celebrity status. But it still illustrates the loophole. The halter dress sounded pretty innocent. I guess if it didn't fit correctly, it could be revealing, but that's pretty commonplace, really.
It really comes down to what standards are used to judge "offensive." I was offended by the use of the Monstrance in the movie Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, but that doesn't mean the average moviegoer would give it a second thought. Breastfeeding certainly shouldn't be considered "generally" offensive, whether it offends one person along the way or not. Of course, I'm sure there are people out there who would not be offended by the woman's lack of undergarments. But the question becomes where to draw the line. As it stands now, it sounds pretty arbitrary.
BTW... "fuzz out her nether regions"... LOL!!! Hah! ;D (sorry)
You know when I saw that news bit I was pulled two ways. On the one hand, I'm sick of the anything goes attitude toward clothing. On the other hand, yeah I'm disturbed by the arbitrary and dictatorial way in which people like these airline officials wield their petty power. I've had some pretty negative experiences traveling alone with my baby girl when the airline people obviously hated children and those who had the temerity to bring them out in public. They went out of their way to make things more difficult for us.
Yet I see so many of these teen-aged girls (and, yes, women who are definitely old enough to know better) wearing the most revealing and provocative outfits and I want to tell them to go put some clothes on. More, I want to ask their parents what they are thinking letting their little girls go out dressed like hookers. There used to be a time when there were community standards of modesty. (Strangely enough, in those days it was much more clear that a woman nursing in public was not being immodest.) Now, like you said, the line seems completely arbitrary. But what's the answer, where do we draw the line? Isn't it about time that somebody stood up and said some outfits are just not acceptable? Ok, I agree a dress code would be much better than suffering under the whims of the petty tyrants; but maybe that's what I want.
I think the clothing decency question has something to do with what influences our definitions of "self respect," but that's DEFINITELY another post! ;) I haven't had such a problem with it personally, as my students tend to wear more gym clothes than anything else, but my husband complained that he never saw so many tattoos that he shouldn't have been seeing or knew as much about where his students bought their underwear as when he was teaching.
That's such a shame about your treatment when flying with Bella! :( It's really a shame when people adopt attitudes toward crying children that are so uncharitable (I notice that you don;t even say that she was crying, though!); I wish more people realized that most of the time the person who is most uncomfortable with her child crying is the mother (and perhaps the father), since she knows that she is responsible not only for the comfort of her little one, but for avoiding the scorn of the people around her!!
That's really outrageous. While I often question individual clothing choices, I certainly don't support the kind of policing that these airlines appear to be doing. Besides, just last week, as I was walking across campus, I passed a girl whose "dress" barely covered her rear end and another girl whose shorts were, at best, three inches long from waist to hem (i.e., the tiniest shorts I've ever seen). Now, these girls were wearing such clothes to class! I thought that both outfits were inappropriate, but I would not ban them from my class if they happened to be my students.
As for breastfeeding on a plane goes, I second lilybug's question about breastfeeding as a way to calm an upset and/or uncomfortable child. Happily, I have breastfed a few times on a plane--both by myself and with Supadiscodaddy sitting next to me. Not once did the person next to me seem to have a problem. In fact, a male traveler asked me some questions about breastfeeding. A female traveler completely ignored both me and my son (despite the fact that he was desperately trying to get her attention). Another male traveler offered to let Supadiscobaby stretch his legs out across his lap (not in a skeezy way) and kept asking me if I was comfortable. So, all in all, no one seemed to care that I was breastfeeding. They were just relieved that my son wasn't screaming during the flight!
I've lost my point, but that's all I have time to say right now :)
In fact, a male traveler asked me some questions about breastfeeding.
That's pretty cool!
A female traveler completely ignored both me and my son (despite the fact that he was desperately trying to get her attention).
I just hate that!! And it's really the saddest thing when an older child ignores, say, a toddler who is desperately trying to get her attention!! But at least you can excuse a child. An adult, on the other hand...
Nursing on take-off & landing also can prevent earaches from the pressure change.
I've breast fed on planes (United both times, IIRC), with no problems. I did the best I could to cover up though, not being one to 'whip' my 'boobs' out in public. ;-) But the first time Gui wouldn't tolerate the blanket so I was covered mostly by the flap on my nursing shirt and it must have been pretty obvious what was going on. No one complained, most people just left us be, and one flight attendant was very solicitous about making sure I stayed hydrated. :-)
The couple times it's just been me and Gui on a flight, the person with the seat next to us volunteered to move to an empty seat. But that had more to do with wiggly toddler and excess carry-ons than bfing. Bfing is a real blessing during takeoff!! And much easier than pumping breastmilk to bottlefeed since no one is measuring how much breastmilk I'm carrying in my breasts when I go through security. ;-)
I do think if airlines and other businesses want to discriminate based on wardrobe they should have some guidelines, even if the majority of the discretion is still left up to the stewards. Some sort of notice that "Southwest reserves the right to ask passengers to cover up or leave the flight if inappropriately dressed. Some examples of inappropriate dress are: visible undergarments, transparent garments, exposed breasts or genital area, offensive slogans or logos on t-shirts,...etc." Then the poor employee would have something to point to if there was a complaint and he needed to confront a passenger, and the passengers would have some idea what is or isn't appropriate.
When we were kids my mom always made us dress up--comfortable but Sunday nice--that's just how it was supposed to be. I still like to dress up to fly. Weird.
When I was a freshman in college, albeit a private Catholic school, my first English professor, a Cistercian priest, would send students out of his class if they were inappropriately dressed. I confess I never was tempted to do the same when I was teaching, though I agree with the comment about TMI about my female students' undergarments. I do think that students should show respect to their teachers and to their fellow students by dressing appropriately for class. But I'm an old fashioned stick in the mud who thinks that most people under dress for most occasions(including myself, by the way).
LC,
Actually when I was snubbed by the airline employee, my daughter was not crying. What happened was our plane was overbooked and the ticket agent didn't say anything when checking me in except that I'd have to pick up my boarding pass at the gate. I guess I should have figured it out then. It was only when I got to the gate that suddenly the gate agent was telling me they didn't have a seat for me.
I explained that I was traveling alone with a small baby and begged him to find a way to keep me from having to deal with a long wait and a cranky baby. Frequently in these situations the airline will ask if someone else would be willing to trade seats. This agent was not only non-sympathetic. He was rude, not even acknowledging my concerns and would barely give me the time of day. It was quite clear from his demeanor that he disliked children and could care less about my distress. All the other employees, I should add, were very sympathetic; but he held the power and knew it.
entropy,
There was a time when everyone dressed up to fly. Just like everyone used to dress up for the symphony or the opera. Now even there I see blue jeans and flip-flops (or is that just in Texas?).
Melanie, I thought Cistercians were cloistered (or whatever the word is for monks) and silent?
I'm thinking of the order Thomas Merton wanted to go in which was even stricter than the Trappists. Do you know?
All I've got to say about flip flops & jeans is, well, I guess we should consider ourselves lucky they're not wearing heels?? :P
I totally agree about students respecting their teachers by dressing appropriately. Of course, I don't think it would be an issue if they respected themselves! And I'm not just talking about dressing too provocatively. How about wearing the size that fits?? Or a flattering style?? (Grated, flattering styles are hard to find for some figures--like mine--well, not currently...) If you're stupid enough to wear something inappropriate to a class taught by a Cistercian priest, you deserve what you get...LOL! Reminds me of a Curt Jester post about figleaves or scarves or something...
That's terrible about your airline experience, Melanie. But there are a lot of people out there who just hate kids.
I did not fly as a child. Or much as an adult (I can almost count on one hand the number of times I've flown, actually). But I just pretty much wear everyday clothes.
FWIW, I think Entropy is thinking of the Carthusians. The only order that never needed reform, being so strict to begin with!
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